Poverty and Homelessness

Sharing Stories: Threshold Housing Society — Mitchell House 2014

In our most recent post in our series on poverty and homelessness we asked people to consider sharing a story about their experiences. Sharing these stories serves as a reminder that poverty and homelessness are not a choice. It’s important for us to end the stigma and stereotypes that are too often associated with these issues. Those who are homeless, just as those who are housed, should not be defined by where they live. Each of us has followed a different path from the past to the present. Yet some of our paths have been rockier than others.

This week we are pleased to offer the first of these stories. We are grateful to the Threshold Housing Society for providing it to us . The Threshold Housing Society provides transitional housing to youth at risk of becoming homeless.


Threshold Housing Society: Mitchell House 2014

By: Graham Kelly – House Supervisor

It was the night before Christmas, and all through the Scots Motel, many creatures were stirring: not only the mice. Skinny teenager Miles Winter was stirring also, or rather tossing and turning sleeplessly. The motel’s roaches were the worst when you felt them on your face, but at least they were silent. It was the scurrying sound of the mice that actually kept Miles awake, even on Christmas Eve, when everyone was supposed to be in a deep sleep dreaming of all they’d be waking up to. Miles knew there wouldn’t be much to wake up to in a few restless hours, when the sound of the motel alarm clock would go off like every morning, and his dad would plug in their tiny plastic tree and say “Merry Christmas kiddo.” It would not be his best, nor would it be his worst Christmas — so long as it was just the scuffling sound inside the walls, and not the rising sound of fighting through them, or the approaching sound of sirens after that. Lying uncomfortably in a pull-out cot, Miles thought of his little cousins a city away, who would wonder how Santa could get down into a motel room without a chimney, and where you would hang stockings when there was no fireplace – only an old, dead heater.

As he finally drifted off to sleep he hoped his cousins were having a Christmas like the one good one Miles had ever known, the one time the family was together and he got the toy he wanted. And he hoped his own Christmases would get better, be happier, and be in a nice house instead of an old motel.

**** **** ****

But the following Christmas, things looked no better for Miles. He and his dad had fled the infestation of that motel and moved on to another, staying as long as it took for his dad to be accepted into low income housing. The place his dad moved into did not have room for Miles, and he was forced to sleep on friends’ couches, until the welcomes finally wore out. He thought he might have to brave the cold and set up a borrowed tent in the park, spending Christmas outside, all alone. But exactly one week before Christmas Eve last year, everything changed. Miles was accepted on an emergency basis into

Mitchell House, the home for young men that I run. On the night of our Christmas dinner last year, Miles arrived to meet other residents and members of the Threshold Housing ‘family’. He was cold and thin, but excited to start a new life with us – well, right after eating a plate piled high with turkey and stuffing.

**** **** ****

This week, Miles and I went Christmas shopping together. We went straight to the toy aisle, where for a moment Miles seemed to become a child again, challenging me to a duel with a telescoping light sabres.

I noticed how much he has grown in a year, how much stronger he is after learning to cook for himself, and how physically fit he is from his job prepping food for sports events. I see the new clarity in his eyes, the focus and motivation he has gained, as he moves closer to his dream of becoming a chef. I see a strong, gifted, caring young man who has survived and thrived after being given a foundation to build on, and who now wishes to give back. And as he picks out toys to give his young cousins on Christmas morning, I see a young man who will never go back, and will make the world better as he goes forward.

– For every youth like Miles that is accepted, Threshold Housing has to turn away four more –

Cost Savings of Housing-First


spending $10 on housing and supports for chronically homeless individuals
with the highest needs, result[s] in $21.72 in savings related to health care,
social supports, housing and involvement in the justice system”
The Homeless Hub


 

Public Opinion on Homelessness

I’ve used the phrase “hidden homelessness” a couple times throughout this series. It is a term that my team and I started using as we began to realise the amount of poverty and homelessness that goes unseen throughout Greater Victoria.

Last month I once more met with Andrew Wynn-Williams, the Executive Director of the Greater Victoria Coalition to End Homelessness, to get an update on the current status of homelessness in our region. As part of the update, Andrew informed me of their recent survey looking at public attitudes towards homelessness.

The survey provided some optimistic findings with regards to public opinion on housing first strategies. For example, 70% of people agreed that providing an individual with housing is cheaper than the costs of homelessness on government services, 90% agreed affordable housing would help reduce homelessness and 85% agreed that ensuring access to affordable housing is the government’s responsibility.

However, I was shocked to read that nearly half of the residents surveyed in Sidney and the Western Communities, and a third of those in Saanich, Oak Bay, Victoria and Esquimalt, did not think that homelessness was an issue in their communities.

While this was a disheartening revelation, I remain optimistic as their seems to be clear public support for the importance of housing initiatives.

Backing public opinion, a number of studies have been released highlighting the benefits of a housing-first strategy for ending homelessness.

Cost-Benefits of Ending Homelessness

Both national and international research has shown the extent of the possible cost-savings associated with shifting our energy from trying to manage homelessness through the provision of emergency services, to actually trying to end homelessness through a housing-first approach. A recent national report from the Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness concluded that spending an extra $46 per Canadian a year on affordable housing could dramatically reduce homelessness, and in turn reduce the $7 billion per year cost of homelessness on our economy.

To find evidence to back these claims up, we need look no further than some of our southern neighbour states. In 2005, Utah launched a homelessness reduction strategy after it was estimated that by housing the chronically homeless the state could save an average of $8,000 per person on costs such as emergency room visits and jail stays. As of 2014, the program has reduced chronic homelessness in Utah by 72%.

While direct data on the overall net savings of the program is not yet available, a similar pilot project in Denver, Colorado found significant savings. For example, total emergency related costs among project participants declined by 72.95% in two years (an average savings of $31,545 per participant), incarceration days and costs were reduced by 76% and emergency shelter costs alone were reduced by an average of $13,600 per person.  

Along these same lines, the Mental Health Commission of Canada (MHCC) recently released the findings from their At Home/Chez Soi study. With projects established in five cities, including Vancouver, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal and Moncton, the study showed that not only can a Housing-First approach be effectively implemented in Canadian cities of varying size and ethno-racial and cultural composition, but it can also provide overall economic cost-savings while rapidly reducing rates of homelessness. This is especially true among the chronically homeless, where for every $10 invested in housing first services there was an average savings of $21.72.

The project was so successful that the federal government has since expanded the program, committing an additional $600 million over five years.

Other studies have found similar cost savings, both direct and indirect, when examining housing versus emergency management of homelessness. A summary of some of the most significant findings can be found in the Coalition’s report on Housing and Homelessness in Greater Victoria.

All of these findings are consistent with estimated cost savings of a housing first approach here in Victoria, where the average annual cost of a shelter bed is $25,525 while the estimated annual cost of new supportive housing is only $16,748 per unit. And the annual cost of a rent supplement, including support, is even lower at $6,800 per unit.

A number of groups already provide supportive and affordable housing here in Victoria, including the Victoria Cool Aid Society, Pacifica Housing, St Vincent de Paul Society, and the M’akola Housing Society. But with more units desperately needed, housing remains a top priority throughout the region (to see a list of  some of the current housing projects needing funding, visit the Coalition’s Priority Housing Project List). 

Action Item

Poverty is something that touches us all. Whether we have lived in poverty ourselves or have seen its impact in our communities, it has affected each and every one of us.

With this in mind, I would like to invite you to share a story about your experiences with poverty and homelessness. Share it with a friend, family member, co-worker, or even your social media following.

In sharing these stories, let it serve as a reminder that poverty and homelessness are not a choice. It’s important for us to end the stigma and stereotypes that are too often associated with these issues. Those who are homeless, just as those who are housed, should not be defined by where they live. Each of us has followed a different path from the past to the present. Yet some of our paths have been rockier than others.

If you cannot think of a personal story, then help spread the stories shared by groups such as Our Place, the Dandelion Society and the Greater Victoria Coalition to End Homelessness.


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Contributing Factors to Homelessness


“There is no one profile of a person who is experiencing homelessness,
just as there is no one path that leads there.”

Greater Victoria Coalition to End Homelessness


Contributing Factors of Homelessness

Homelessness is more than what you see on the street. Nothing has become more evident to me while researching for this blog series than this one simple fact.

While people often view homelessness as an issue specific to the downtown core, the hard truth is that poverty and homelessness can take on many forms in communities all across the region.

Whether it be a middle-aged man injured on the job and unable to work, a single mother trying to support three children on minimum-wage, a young person struggling with mental illness and unable to hold down a job, or a senior who can’t afford rent and groceries on her monthly pension, poverty and homelessness know no boundaries.

Just as there is no single face of homelessness, there is also no single contributor to homelessness. From mental illness and addiction to domestic violence, to the many challenges facing both on- and off-reserve aboriginal persons, several factors can lead to poverty and homelessness.

Here in Greater Victoria and throughout B.C., one of the most significant contributors to poverty and homelessness is the gap between income and housing costs. While average rent costs continue to rise, the resources available to low income households have not changed, making it increasingly difficult for many to afford adequate housing.

As of April 2013, the average monthly rent paid by someone on income assistance in Greater Victoria was $501. However, the monthly shelter allowance for a single individual receiving income assistance is only $375. This means that many individuals are forced to forgo other basic necessities, such as food, clothing and health-related expenses, in order to cover the cost of their rent.

Similarly, the gap between the living wage in Greater Victoria and the minimum wage here in B.C. is staggering.

The living wage in our region – the wage that both parents in a two parent, two child family need to make in a 35 hour work week to maintain an adequate quality of life increased to $18.73 per hour in 2013. In the same year, the minimum wage in B.C.was only $10.25 per hour; $8.48 lower than the living wage.

In order to make a living wage and maintain an adequate quality of life, an average family of four would have to earn a monthly income of approximately $5,222.36; even then they would not be able to afford to care for an elderly relative or disabled family member, to own their own home, or to save for education or retirement.

In reality, most low-income families earn at or slightly above minimum wage, making it virtually impossible for them to afford the high costs of living and keeping them in a constant battle to remain housed.

Housing Need

Affordable and supportive housing is considered a key factor to combating homelessness by service providers. Since 2008, almost 250 new supportive housing units and over 450 new affordable housing units have been built across Greater Victoria. While this is progress, it is not enough. The Coalition estimates that in order to end homelessness in our region we need an additional 250 – 750 units of supportive housing and 1500 units of non-market and low-market affordable housing.

Meeting these housing needs requires funding commitments from all levels of government: federal, provincial, regional and municipal. And this is precisely what local housing groups have been tirelessly campaigning for. Affordable housing projects saw a slight boost in funding recently when the Canadian and British Columbia Governments announced that they were committing an additional investment of over $300 million over five years. While this certainly helps, more funding is still needed if we hope to end homelessness completely.

Weekly Action Item

With Christmas quickly approaching we thought we would choose an action item that helps alleviate hidden poverty in the context of the holiday season: Christmas Hampers.

High costs of living and limited financial resources mean that many families in Greater Victoria are unable to provide their children with the same holiday experiences that the rest of us are fortunate enough to enjoy. To provide these families with much-needed additional support during the holiday season, several organizations in Victoria run Christmas Hamper Programs. These hampers, which can include basic food, clothing, or even small gifts, make Christmas brighter for hundreds of families throughout the city.

Organizations that run Christmas Hamper Programs include the Mustard Seed, CFAX Santa’s Anonymous, and the Goldstream Food Bank, to name a few.

So, if it is within your means, please consider donating to one of the many Christmas Hamper Programs in your community.  

But please also remember that while these hampers will help to alleviate some of the need over the holiday season, they are not a permanent solution. Child poverty continues to be on the rise in B.C. and more government action is needed at all levels if we hope to end this trend. I will be touching on many of these issues over the coming weeks, for now click here for other ways you can take action to reduce child poverty.


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Homelessness in Greater Victoria


 “Just because you’re not seeing people on the streets does not mean homelessness is not there.”
Andrew Wynn-Williams, Executive Director of the Greater Victoria Coalition to End Homelessness


Homelessness

As temperatures start to drop and the holiday season approaches, Greater Victoria’s homelessness crisis is at the forefront of our minds.

While poverty and homelessness have been an on-going concern in our region for some time, recent reports have highlighted just how serious the problem continues to be.

There has been noticeable improvements thanks to programs put in place by dedicated organizations across our community, however, more still needs to be done. Dedicating their time and resources to improving the lives of those in need, these groups need our ongoing support to reach their ultimate goal: ending homelessness in Greater Victoria.

Throughout December I will be posting a series on poverty and homelessness in our region. The purpose of this blog is to help increase awareness and to offer action items that we as individuals can take to support local organizations in their work to address poverty and homelessness.

State of Homelessness in Greater Victoria

To understand just how prevalent homelessness is, last February the Greater Victoria Coalition to End Homelessness undertook their 4th annual point-in-time Facility Count. The purpose of the study was to get a sense of how many people are homeless and using supportive facilities. They counted 1,167 individuals in need of shelter on just one night, including 70 families and a total of 116 children.

While these numbers are startling, what is worse is that they only represent a portion of the people in need. Point-in-time counts are one-day counts and therefore can only provide an estimate of the number of individuals experiencing homelessness on a given day. These numbers fluctuate from day-to-day and do not take into account those who sleep outside, couch-surf, or live in overcrowded or inadequate accommodation, resulting in an underestimation of the number of people in need.

In fact, measuring the exact extent of homelessness is extremely difficult.

What we do know is that from April 2012 to March 2013, 1,659 unique individuals made use of an emergency shelter bed in five of six emergency shelters in Greater Victoria, resulting in an over-occupancy rate of 112%. Meanwhile many more are at-risk of homelessness with almost a third of renter households in “core housing need”, meaning more than 30% of their income is spent on housing, and a tenth in “severe housing need”, spending more than 50% of their income on housing.

The situation is just as severe across BC and throughout Canada. As of March 2013, 1,477 households in our province were on the wait-list for BC Housing and, according to Food Banks Canada, at least 20,524 individuals accessed food banks in one month alone in 2012.

The need for action is clear and there are a number of local organizations providing invaluable services to those experiencing poverty and homelessness.

They have been making significant progress – but they need your help.

While these service providers are doing all that they can to provide support to those in need, there exists a significant shortfall in the amount of resources available to assist them in their work. These shortfalls can be seen in local emergency shelters, which consistently operate at over capacity and turn individuals away on a nightly basis, as well as in the increasing strain placed on outreach programs such as at Our Place, where demand for services has hit record numbers.

Weekly Action Item

Each week during this series, the post will end by identifying one tangible action you can take to help address homelessness in your community. The purpose of these action items is to provide you with suggestions for simple ways in which you can give back and make a difference in someone’s life.

This week’s action item aims to help provide the countless service providers across Greater Victoria with the support they need to continue offering support to those in need. Through food and clothing contributions, monetary donations and volunteer help, these organizations are able to provide the services that they offer because of the generosity and support of people like you.

Every donation that they receive – no matter the size, extent, or capacity – and every volunteer that walks through their doors, has an immeasurable impact on someone’s life.

Here are a few examples of organizations in Victoria that you can reach out to if you would like to make a donation or volunteer your time:

  • Our Place Society – an inner-city community community centre serving vulnerable populations including the working poor, impoverished elderly, mentally and physically challenged, addicted and the homeless.
  • The Mustard Seed – a local non-profit organization that runs a number of programs including a drop-in centre, a clothing bank, counselling services, and the largest food bank on Vancouver Island.
  • Society of St. Vincent de Paul a charity group providing a number of services to people that fall below the poverty line, including emergency food, material support, counselling programs and low cost housing.
  • Victoria Cool Aid Society –  a charitable organization that advocates for and provides emergency shelter, supportive housing, integrated health care and other support services to those in need.
  • United Way of Greater Victoria – a registered charity funding programs and services that offer safe and stable housing, increase access to food, provide financial literacy support and offer employment training and skills development.
  • Beacon Community Services – a community-based, non-profit, social, employment, health, recreational, housing and volunteer services agency offering a range of services and programs to thousands of clients in the Capital Region.

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The Portland Hotel Society – An Update

In Committee A on Thursday, April 3, the Budget Estimates debates for the Housing Ministry were up. I had the opportunity to question the Minister, Honourable Rich Coleman, on a topic that I felt deserved to be explored more thoroughly. In particular, I was concerned that as a result of the recent controversy surrounding the Portland Hotel Society, the extremely important programs offered by this society would suffer. If this were to happen, the most vulnerable in our society would be those who ended up being hurt the most by the scandal.

As noted in the questions and answers extracted from Hansard and reproduced below, the Minister offered very reassuring responses that clearly indicate that the Portland Hotel Society’s programs will continue to operate, albeit under different management and a new Board.


Question 1:

A. Weaver: I have a couple of questions. First off, I’d like to apologize to the minister and the critic. I had not planned to ask Housing questions just because so much is going on at the same time, but I did want to ask just a couple of questions on a topic that I think needs to be addressed. These are pertaining to the Portland Hotel Society.

I’d like to acknowledge first off that it’s clearly been noted that a vast majority of the projects supported by this B.C. Housing do excellent work and are highly accountable. I also know that everybody is trying to ensure that we learn from the mistakes that happened and is trying to remedy these mistakes at the Portland Hotel Society.

Nevertheless, I have a couple of quick questions. First, if the minister is able to let me know, what is the allocated budget for the Portland Hotel Society in this fiscal year?

Answer:

Hon. R. Coleman: The budget we’re providing to that particular society this year would be approximately $9 million from Housing and about $9 million from Health.


Question 2:

A. Weaver: I’m wondering what steps the minister is taking to ensure that the mismanagement of public expenses at the Portland Hotel Society — not only the hotel society but potentially other housing societies. What account, what steps are being taken to ensure that mismanagement will not occur in the future?

Answer:

Hon. R. Coleman: I don’t want this discussion to leave any question that all of a sudden every non-profit society in British Columbia isn’t operating properly in housing. We have about 500 societies we do business with. They operate either, in some cases, in one building and sometimes multiple buildings. Sometimes they have other relationships in government with regards to social services or health.

Basically, the first thing I want to do is give the typical review process for the member, because this is what drives where we get to. I will say this: in this case, this is the most egregious anomaly that I have ever seen in housing in British Columbia, what went on at the Portland Hotel Society with regards to — not the services to the client but the poor management, the arm’s-length decisions that actually were interrelated with people, family, relatives and friends on social enterprises that weren’t profitable and ended up having to be subsidized, and the egregious spending with regards to some luxurious trips where people are actually donating to an organization where this should never happen.

I can tell you that they are an anomaly on that file, but here is the typical review process. B.C. Housing, a non–profit housing provider — I can give this to members; you don’t have to write it down — prepare and agree on a budget for the upcoming fiscal year on an annual basis. Our staff sit down with every society, go over their budget from the previous year, and set up a budget. Once the fiscal year is over, the auditor would require the non-profit providers to submit an audited financial statement. So they can have a bookkeeper, somebody doing their books all year long. Their books then have to go to a separate auditor, a chartered accountant, to do an audited financial statement. We review the financial statements and budgets to the budget versus actual on an annual basis for each one of these organizations.

Based on that review, we will make adjustments to the budget if it’s required, or we can sit down and talk to them about a range of some minor changes or further discussions, specific financial or operational costs that need to be improved. It’s an ongoing working relationship to make sure we’re all doing a good job.

The housing providers implement the changes that we recommend to them, and B.C. Housing follows up to ensure changes are made. So that’s what we do. This is how we operate this.

If changes are not made and the concerns continue to escalate, then we will escalate action based on the issues of the breaches that are noted. If we think that somebody is, for instance, not managing their maintenance account very well or their capital reserve has been misspent, and if they continue to do that, there could be a number of things. We could come in and sit down with the board and say: “You’re not doing your fiduciary duty. You need to improve this.” We can sit down with the management and help them improve their management practices and accounting. But we work with these guys, recognizing that in many cases…. All of these boards are volunteers, and so we recognize the personal commitment they have made to their communities.

When it really goes outside of that relationship not working, that’s the only time escalation would include a B.C. Housing internal audit team or a third-party auditor going in and taking a look at the books, which was the case of…. Every one of those steps actually happened on Portland. The Portland Hotel Society were audited in 2002. We initiated a third-party audit of the society then after the regular oversight process identified some operation and financial issues. One of the things that was taking place at the time is their accountant had passed away. There were some concerns because there were issues with their books. A third-party firm at that time went in, were brought in, to conduct an audit. Upon completion of that audit, B.C. Housing and the Portland Hotel Society took the required actions to implement the recommendation. So they actually did what they were told to do back in 2002. They went through and basically did their thing.

We’ve asked the new board, even with accounting for privacy rules, if they could please release that audit. But at the time, when we looked at releasing it back then, we weren’t allowed to under protection of privacy issues.

Those recommendations in that audit were implemented immediately. For the next number of years, the audited financial statements every year was matched up to the budget. There were no issues with the spending or concerns that were flagged until about 2010, when we started to see a small deficit.

That brought us through a number of processes and audits in a period of time up to the date that we actually we had to do the unfortunate thing that we had to do with the Portland Hotel Society and basically change its management and its board. It was either do that or take it into receivership and take it over financially.


Question 3:

A. Weaver: Thank you, minister, for that answer. My concern for this is the services that the society provided. My final question is: what steps in this budget is the minister taking to ensure the essential services such as Insite, the safe injection site, are actually sustainable for the community that the Portland Hotel Society served?

Answer:

Hon. R. Coleman: That’s a very fair question. You go through this unfortunate process, but you do have people that work for this society and units they manage. And they have the services and programs they deliver for both health and for housing that work and, quite frankly, are doing valuable work with the some of the hardest to house and hardest people in the community.

The arrogance of the people that were their bosses doesn’t mean…. It should not reflect on their concern and love for the people that they actually deal with every day. So what we did to make sure that this is stable and controlled is….

We had three options in front of us. One, to have the executive, the management team, resign and replace the management team and have the board resign and replace the board.

Two was to say: “In cooperation, because we’re not going to fund you anymore, if you don’t agree with these changes, you’re in receivership. You have two issues in and around receivership. You can accept it, or you can challenge it in court. If you wish to do either one of those, we will pursue it either way.” They chose to leave, which is better for the society, because it does have members that are members of the society and who, I think, were a part of a valuable thing that was happening for the people that were the clients of the organization.

Today, what we’ve done is we’ve gone in and put in a new board. We have a chair, Faye Wightman, who used to be the head of the Vancouver Foundation, on the board. We have, Ida Goodreau, who used to be the CEO of Vancouver Coastal Health Authority, on the board.

We brought in Jim O’Day. I’ve known Jim for decades. He was actually at one time the chair of B.C. Housing, a number of years ago. He has quite a good reputation on working with societies for developments and stuff like that, in that field.

Then there is Andy Broderick from Vancity and four other people. We brought in very good, high performing people to be volunteers on this board.

Then we went in and said, “Well, now the management’s gone,” so we took a senior management from B.C. Housing and the senior manager from Health, who now run the Portland Hotel Society operation.

In addition to that, we brought in Deloitte to basically be the accountant within the society to take a look at all the documentation and all the receipts that led up to this thing so that we’ll have any concerns there but also, obviously build a long-term financial plan for the sustainability of the society.

We will look at all of these social enterprises that basically were put in place by Portland, arm’s length to any funding we gave, but they were cross-subsidizing and it led to some of the deficit problems, because they weren’t well run or they had interrelationships that should not have existed in an organization like this.

We will analyze all of that and determine which ones are sustainable, which are not, which ones make sense, which…. You know, if it’s a painting contract to a friendly company owned by somebody that’s friendly, then we’re going to let that contract go out for bid, and they can all bid on it. That sort of thing, right? There will be competition brought in and some accountability to those expenses.

We’re in the process right now of selecting an interim CEO — sorry, an executive director and a director of finance for the organization so that…. We obviously don’t want our senior managers having to run Portland in the long term. We will go through with a restructuring of the management. Then, in addition to that as we go along, we will eventually transition the board back to some community members as well, who will part of the long-term board.

That’s basically the structure we put in place to protect it. Obviously there will be some changes on the fiscal side at Portland Hotel Society. There won’t be any trips down the Danube or limousine cruises to concerts or trips to Disneyland, you know, those types of things really raised the ire, quite frankly, of the public and unfortunately damaged the great reputation of so many good societies that do work in British Columbia, including the Downtown Eastside.

You could go through these other organizations who do the same accountability process, as I described, every year — they’re audited financial statements — who work with us. You can improve the management. You can always get a situation with a society where there’s some little management glitch that needs to be improved. We work with them to solve those problems and to improve their ability to manage, because that’s part of the education management process when we’re the funder and the holder of the operating agreement with them.

I think that we’ve done…. I shouldn’t say “we.” The folks at B.C. Housing and the folks at Health have done an exceptional job dealing with a very difficult problem. At the end of the day, we did so in such a way that we had the compassion and concern for the very difficult clients that the Portland Hotel Society serves. While we’re doing that, we’re protecting the integrity of the non-profit sector and moving on to get to where this society will have a long-term viability as well